So much for the religious right

I haven’t seen any comment yet on the Family First vote. They went nowhere. 1.9% in the House of Reps. And below 3% in the Senate in each state – not even reaching 1% in NSW and WA.

They do seem to have outpolled the Liberty and Democracy Party though…

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Posted in federal election '07
59 comments on “So much for the religious right
  1. It’s unsurprising. Religiosity continues to decline. Most Australians are socially liberal. There is no broad support for restricting access to abortion or paying out on homosexuals.

    Opposing such policies, and the parties/individuals that propose them, is still necessary. But we shouldn’t over estimate the influence of groups like Family First.

  2. Sam Ward says:

    I outpolled FF in my electorate 🙂 One Nation too.

  3. Sam Ward says:

    The only reason FF were ever a big deal is because they worked out some very good preference deals in the last election anyway.

  4. hannah's dad says:

    They won’t increase their vote much in the future I suspect but they won’t disappear either.
    I travelled through 3 small towns on polling day to drop off HTV staff and noticed that each had several FF people handing out HTVs on a rostered basis. The Libs had the same being in strong Lib territory.
    The ALP had only one person at each for the whole day, the Nats also only managing one representative at each town.
    The Greens were totally invisible without corflutes advertisements or leafletting at all during the election in this electorate yet they outvoted the FF.
    The churches provide a core group of ‘soldiers’, known to the locals, and hence the FF will always be a constant, albeit fairly trivial, presence.

  5. shishkin says:

    while you’re on the topic, i thought that the Liberty and Democracy Party were onto something but i really couldn’t be sure that they meant (or understood) what they said – what little i read about them had a whiff of midget masked hermaphrodite wrestlers from outer space to it (but maybe i was feeling a tad cynical at the time?) anyway i preferenced them above the shooter’s party and the fishing mob too (as well as above a bunch of the other more obvious freaks) – which is saying something because if i ever became a wealthy man of leasure i’d surely take up clay pigeon shooting and get a little runaround so i could sink some crab pots in the river

  6. Graham Bell says:

    Kimberella and Australian Athiest:
    Don’t underestimate them or their associates. Influence & Power is the name of the game; votes are only one implement in a whole toolbox of tools for achieving that. A very loose analogy for you to ponder [and, of course, not suggesting any other similarities at all between the two political parties]: it was not until 1928 that the NaZi Party even got beyond being a despised unelectable splinter group in Prussia, the most important part of the Weimar Republic, five years later they had been elected to dominate the whole country …. and the rest is history.

    Hannah’s Dad:
    Funny you should mention the churches; the mainstream traditional churches are the one who have the most to fear from Family First and its many manifestations and reincarnations. We should not assume they are a latter day Democratic Labor Party or National Civic Council.

    Australian Athiest:
    Thanks to governments on both sides since the late ‘Seventies, Australia is a divided country. Yes, religiosity itself did decline …. but the nebulous hopes nurtured by well-organized quasi-religious groups is increasingly attractive to the dispossessed, the betrayed, the harmed. Such groups are attractive to the ambitious too.

  7. gummotrotsky says:

    Maybe the religious right were too busy stacking NSW Liberal Party branches to campaign vigorously for Family First.

  8. Katz says:

    FF are an interesting phenomenon.

    It is undoubted that they are culturally and socially conservative.

    However, it cannot be gainsaid that their economic policies sit more comfortably with the ALP and even the Greens than with the Coalition. Therefore, any attempt to associate them with the US religious right should be treated with great caution.

    (Interestingly, to follow up on GB’s comment above, the pre-1928 Nazis were also socially and culturally conservative while being socialist in their economic policies.)

    A quick perusal of the candidates list of FF will indicate a large contingent of persons of South Asian and Oriental origins. Some of these persons may have been of Christian heritage, but it is my guess that many of them are of the first generation of their families to convert to Christianity.

    I would argue tentatively that for these persons identification with Christianity represents a means by which they choose to integrate into the mainstream culture of suburban Australia and a way to dilute what they perceive as their disadvantageous ethno-racial identity.

    Who knows what the future may bring but I would hazard a guess that identification with evangelical Christianity is a transitional strategy preparatory to melting into that great integrative melange that is Australian society.

    In short there will be no great Christian counter-cultural ghetto from which FF will be able to garner mass support.

    Instead, FF will continue to be a nuisance to the Coalition parties which will be trapped between the desire to court FF’s preferences and the desire not to be too closely associated with God Botherers.

  9. Despite their poor polling we are still saddled with Fielding for another 3 years unless there is a double dissolution!

  10. Michael says:

    Katz: “A quick perusal of the candidates list of FF will indicate a large contingent of persons of South Asian and Oriental origins. Some of these persons may have been of Christian heritage, but it is my guess that many of them are of the first generation of their families to convert to Christianity.

    I would argue tentatively that for these persons identification with Christianity represents a means by which they choose to integrate into the mainstream culture of suburban Australia and a way to dilute what they perceive as their disadvantageous ethno-racial identity.”

    If you come out to Uni of Qld on a Sunday you’ll find lots of evangelical Christians out here using facilities for their services etc. Many of them are students primarily from Asia. They might be first generation converts but not so much to integrate into Australia. Christianity is spreading rapidly in China, Sth Korea and elsewhere in east and SE Asia. Evangelical generally and more specifically Presbyterian Christianities are make up almost half South Korea’s pop’n.

    IOW I think Asian evnagelical Christians in Australia are representative of a much broader east Asian phenomenon that also impacts here through immigration. However I agree that “there will be no great Christian counter-cultural ghetto from which FF will be able to garner mass support” and that FF are going to be not much more than a nuisance for the Coalition parties.

  11. Sam Ward says:

    Katz: Just because the Asian candidates are running for family first doesn’t mean they are necessarily bible thumpers. Most asian societies are significantly more conservative than western societies regardless of religion.

  12. Katz says:

    Did I mention “necessity”?

  13. woulfe says:

    “Instead, FF will continue to be a nuisance to the Coalition parties which will be trapped between the desire to court FF’s preferences and the desire not to be too closely associated with God Botherers.”

    Just two words: Alex Hawke

  14. Paul Burns says:

    The Uglies, Alex Hawke included, have done a lot of damage to the NSW Libs and may have been partly responsible for the Libs failure at the recent NSW election. If this poison has seeped into tyhe Federal Liberals, jolly good, it will help keep them out of power for, I hope, several generations.

  15. Jack Strocchi says:

    THe GREENS increased their Senate vote from 7.7% to 9.0%, a 1.3% increase in total. I guess thats nothing to sneeze at but it was not altogether impressive given the full-court press in the media and academia for the Green agenda, complete with pictures of cuddly polar bears frolicking on melting ice floes.

    Meanwhile the DEM vote in the Senate suffered a further slump, to 1.2% of the total. They look to be pretty much doomed.

    So the Wet minor parties (GREENs & DEMS) together more or less treaded water.

    Not exactly promising material for those died-in-the-woolly minded “social liberals”.

  16. Katz says:

    But we’ve been through all this before Jack.

    Australia’s social liberals achieved their huge victories during the 1970s.

    The social liberal agenda is now simply to fend off episodic attacks on its hegemony from evangelicals, populists and cynical political careerists.

    Howard tried to wind the clock back, and failed.

    We’re here for good now.

  17. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    It’s difficult to imagine a more offensive party than FF: a religious agenda mixed with rampant anti-free-enterprise populism.

    Jack is right so far as the Greens go, though. The political environment ought to have favoured significant gains in their national primary vote, but they managed only a .5% increase. Elsewhere the argument has been put that traditional Greens voters don’t understand preferential voting, and so gave their primary vote to Labor because they really really wanted to get rid of John Howard. I tend to be a little more charitable: Greens voters are perfectly capable of understanding how preferential voting works, it’s just that there aren’t that many of them.

    BBB

  18. Mark Hill says:

    Paul – are you sure you want that? What happens when NSW gets sick of Labor – 16 years is awfully long to be in office.

  19. FDB says:

    Shorter Strocchi –

    “What conservative government full of culture worry-ers thrown out on its arse? I don’t see any conservative government full of culture worry-ers thrown out on its arse!

    Look over there! – The Greens only increased their vote by a little bit in the context of a landslide pro-Labor vote and came closer to getting a lower house seat than ever before.”

    Jack, just cos someone eventually gets bored and stops kicking your corpse doesn’t mean you’ve won.

  20. Gaz says:

    “So the Wet minor parties (GREENs & DEMS) together more or less treaded water.”

    Jack don’t guild the lilley old son,the green vote increased no matter how you carve it up.

    I suggest it’s back to the books for you old son to reevaluate some of your pet theories.

    Best said by Katz, and the end of the conversation.Howard tried to wind back the clock and failed,and we’re here to stay.It is just very sad indeed,the amount of people that have been hurt both mentally and physically, by what can be best described, as a shower of toe rags.

    Costello didn’t haul ass cos he had the shits on,he knows he can’t take this country further to the right ,because the people have told him via the ballot box to fuck off.

  21. Mark Hill says:

    Further to the right???

    Highest taxing Governmrnt ever!

  22. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    Holy shit, Gaz. You’re right that Costello can’t take this country further to the right. Opposition MPs can’t do much of anything. But does he have to? He and Howard (apparently) managed to bring the ALP leadership to the right. Tinkering at the margins is what you’ve got to look forward to (and thank Christ for that). There’s no shortage of culture war issues for which the ALP now marches in lock-step with the Tories…

    Cheers
    BBB

  23. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    Good point, Mark. This meandering ‘today I’m a social democrat’, ‘tomorrow I’m a cultre warrior’ stuff deserved to get smashed at the ballot box. But it just sails over so many heads…

    BBB

  24. Gaz says:

    “Opposition MPs can’t do much of anything.”

    Triple B please spare telling me the obvious,no matter where Rudd takes the government it is still going to be to the left of anything Costello could dream up.

    At the risk of repeating myself,Costello thought with the success the Howard team has had over the last eleven years, they were on track,and the plebs were in love with them and their policy’s. From opposition what do you think he is gonna do renege on every thing he believes in ?.He had to keep going in the direction they were headed.And the rest as they say is history.

  25. Gaz says:

    “Highest taxing Governmrnt ever!”

    A high taxing government so what? So all the socialists and other trendy latte lefty’s in society via social welfare copped all that money did they.Spare me the bullshit please.

  26. Mark Hill says:

    Huh? It is attack on Howard – obviously.

  27. Gaz says:

    “Huh? It is attack on Howard – obviously.”

    Don’t make me laugh you right wingers,er sorry libertarians, are all tarred with the same brush.

    You are just pissed off the needy in society cop some of your taxes.

  28. Chris says:

    The greens increased their vote, but they must be really disappointed to only pick up one of the 4 democrat senate seats. A lot of the ex-democrat voters ended up returning to the labor and liberal parties rather than vote green.

  29. Stu says:

    Note that in WA & NSW the low FF vote might not be quite as encouraging as you suggest, in both states the CDP got a reasonable vote.

    As for the Greens and preferential voting, this could well be stopping people from changing to voting Green. It has nothing to do with whether Greens voters understand preferential voting since for the most part the Greens vote is similar to last time, so it doesn’t appear that Greens voters were switching to Labor, rather it is that there are few new Greens voters. Anecdotally the idea of voting Labor to be sure of getting rid of Howard was certainly out there a lot. The situation in 3 years time, especially if the Liberals, as many expect, aren’t yet posing a threat to the Labor government, could potentially be quite different.

  30. Paul Burns says:

    Unelectable Uglies in Federal Parliament ain’t a bad thing, Mark H.
    I think the electorate got scared by the extreme right rhis election. Howard’s vow to destroy the welfare state in his campaign launch has generally gone unremaked so far as I can see but I know people heeded it as there were at least two letters written to our local paper on just that issue, one of them mine, unpublished).Basicsally with Workchoices and their welfare reforms I think the Libs have put themselves in opposition for a very long time.Not much they can really do in NSW, but go from bad to worse.

  31. Jack Strocchi says:

    Comment by Katz — November 26, 2007 @ 10:45 am

    Australia’s social liberals achieved their huge victories during the 1970s.

    Sure they did. And I do not know any Cultural Rightists who want to go back to the pre-war days of White Australia where coloureds were kept out of the country, women were kept bare-foot, pregnant and chained to a hot stove whilst gays were kept in the closet.

    But there is the little matter of the eggs that got broken when that omlette got made. I’m talking about plague-ridden gays, barren career women, thriving people smuggling-and-drowning industry, rampantly anomic indigenous communities, nascent ethnic ghettos, Republicans grandees with contradictory constitutions, drug-addled teens and the travesty of a trashed, tragic & treasureless history.

    Social change in AUS from the mid-70s to mid 90s went too far and too fast for comfort. The Howard years were the cultural stagnation that we had to have.

    Katz says:

    Howard tried to wind the clock back, and failed.

    Winding back the clock is one metaphor for curbing entropy or restoring social order, as thermodynamic physcists would say. That is a perfectly good description of the housekeeping required when adult supervision has been absent.

    Howard has been cleaning up your mess. Constraining the growth of HIV esp from sub-saharan African immigrants, encouraging a better-late-than-never baby boom amongst educated women, blocking the people smuggler-drowners, restoring law-and-order in remote indigenous communities, putting bumbling and inept Republican constitutionalists in their place, waging a somewhat successful war on drugs and reminding us of our tried-but-true triumphs.

    Katz says:

    We’re here for good now.

    You are here for good and ill. So are “we”, meaning authoritarian conservatives. There is a dialectic in cultural progress. Social liberals promote individual autonomy required to construct new and improved culture. Conversely, social “corporals” protect institutional authority which conserves tried and tested old culture. At least I think that was what Hegel and Oakshott were getting at.

    Liberalism and “corporalism” are the Ying and Yang of cultural modernity. Constructivist autonomy without conservative authority leads to anarchy. Conservative authority without constructivist autonomy leads to stasis.

    Both major parties contain liberal and “corporal” elements. The LN/P has its corporal elements with the religious, militarists and big businessmen. It also has its liberal elements, doctors wives, noble obligators and so on. Likewise the ALP has its corporal elements, most obviously the unions. And its liberal elements in the media and academia.

    Rudd seems to have struck some sort of balance between the two for the ALP. No doubt Turnbull will do the same thing for the LN/P.

  32. Mark Hill says:

    “You are just pissed off the needy in society cop some of your taxes.”

    I would say which taxes are mine, but yes, the poor are hurt by high taxes – tariffs, fuel excise, poverty traps vis a vis an income tax that cuts in WAY too early.

    Did Howard tackle any of this? Nope?

  33. Gaz says:

    “Sure they did. And I do not know any Cultural Rightists who want to go back to the pre-war days of White Australia where coloureds were kept out of the country, women were kept bare-foot, pregnant and chained to a hot stove whilst gays were kept in the closet.”

    Jack are you legally blind and deaf? Exhibit 1. for the prosecution.To Wit a one,
    John Winston Howard.

  34. Gaz says:

    “Did Howard tackle any of this? Nope?”

    Did you expect him to? Because I certainly didn’t.

    He carried out his program as was expected by most of the cultural left,he couldn’t give a flying fuck about the poor or needy in society,lets face it in the end he was starting to screw over his own base.

    Taxes.

    Work out your tax burden and ask for a rebate less what you think you should be paying for.I mean if you want it all back,don’t use my roads on your way to the hospital or other service that I don’t mind paying for.

    His only concern and that coterie of right wing rat bags he had the affront to call a government, pandered all their largess on the C.E.O’S of huge company’s,and the Alan Bonds of the world.

    It is just a pity it took eleven long years for the penny to drop.

  35. Jack Strocchi says:

    Comment by FDB — November 26, 2007 @ 11:26 am

    “What conservative government full of culture worry-ers thrown out on its arse? I don’t see any conservative government full of culture worry-ers thrown out on its arse!
    Jack, just cos someone eventually gets bored and stops kicking your corpse doesn’t mean you’ve won.

    Perhaps you should look at what replaced the “conservative culture worry-ers” before you engage in premature ejactulations of triumph. More of the much the same, at least in public leadership. As Sheehan observed:

    The electorate has chosen a Labor leader who locked his party’s utopian left wing in a broom closet for the election campaign, and is giving every indication he intends to keep them there. In his final keynote address of the campaign, not once did he mention the words unions, Aborigines, indigenous, apology, refugees or multiculturalism.

    Its a funny kind of defeat for the Cultural Right when the leader of the party of the Left describes himself as a “conservative”, in both fiscal and cultural matters. But no doubt up looks like down and white is turned into black for someone like you whose head appears to have been firmly embedded in their own fundament for the past generation.

    The view from there must be bad enough. But at least you were spared the vision of former leader of the ALP – and indigene – supporting the most conservative authoritarian shift in indigenous cultural policy in Australian history. See it and weep.

    And Rudd supported it.

    Truly, Cultural Leftism is a dead horse past flogging.

  36. Katz says:

    Howard has been cleaning up your mess. Constraining the growth of HIV esp from sub-saharan African immigrants, encouraging a better-late-than-never baby boom amongst educated women, blocking the people smuggler-drowners, restoring law-and-order in remote indigenous communities, putting bumbling and inept Republican constitutionalists in their place, waging a somewhat successful war on drugs and reminding us of our tried-but-true triumphs.

    Some folks just can’t handle freedom.

    If Howard and his “corporal” admirers enjoy playing the role of beadle, who am I to stand in their way?

    But you know as well as I do that Howard had larger ambitions than simply being the bouncer at the party. He wanted to shut it down.

    And you identified the wellspring of Howard’s assault on social liberalism. Taking his text from George Orwell, Howard beleived that if you control the past you control the future.

    Howard’s now defunct syllabus of approved legends from Australian history assiduously avoided any mention of the great social liberal revolution of the 1970s. For most people living in Australia today these reforms define what they can read, watch, listen to, provide them access to quality health care, not having to lie in court to terminate at toxic marriage, offer some protection from discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or belief.

    Howard promised himself and his followers that PC would be fair game. After toyin with that idea for a bit, the voters of Australia have concluded that PC is actually good old-fashioned common decency.

  37. Gaz says:

    I bet Stroccibot loses sleep at night knowing that all those blue singleted truckers, concrete finishers,trench diggers,car cleaners, and other assorted working class dullards,at the end of the day have the vote, just like Stroccibot.I bet that gives you a real dose of reality, eh Jack.

    Jack go back and re-evaluate your absolute crappy thesis on any thing political,Look if you get stuck cos you can’t find a job as an intellectual bull shit artist,I need a laborer for a concrete job
    I’ve got set up for next Monday.Your last name is Strocchi, umm Italian I believe, you’ll fit right in.

    I’ll let the boys know your coming so they can get read up on philosophy and some high brow culture,that way you wont bore them to death.

    What’s a political correct term for penis puller?oh I know wanker.

  38. Jack Strocchi says:

    Comment by Katz —November 26, 2007 @ 12:45 pm

    folks just can’t handle freedom.

    I am all for freedom and fairness to people of all colours, creeds and cohorts. But not everyone can hack it, and not all the time. Thats why we have organizations and “support networks”, largest of which is the nation state. And the job of a state is to say “No” when our instincts threaten our interests. It is obvious that minorities are more vulnerable, by biological circumstance as much as sociological choice.

    Katz says:

    the great social liberal revolution of the 1970s.

    Ahh priceless phrase for golden years. But what, as the behaviourists used to taunt us, is the “cash value” of this phrase in action, aprez la revolucion?

    Well, we had an orgy of child molestation in remote Aboriginal communities (“self-determination”). A plague of STDs (“free love”). A racket of ethnic crooks, bag men and patriarchs presiding over ghettoised enclaves and stacked branches (“multiculturalism”). An epidemic of infertility and late term abortions amongst educated women (“womens right to choose”), violent and abusive drug addicts of various kinds overwhelming ER’s of a weekend (“victimless criminals”), borders compromised by people-smuggler-drowners (“asylum seekers”). Malicious academics peddling a phoney tale of woe for an arty-farty audience eager to hear the worst (“revisionism”).

    No doubt some of this is part of the inevitable distemper of post-modernity. But govt is there to put the brake on, not pedal to the metal, when things get out of hand. That is Howard’s triumph. Unheralded by the intellectual pygmies and ideological rat-bags dancing on his grave.

  39. Mindy says:

    “restoring law-and-order in remote indigenous communities”

    Jack if you really believe this I have a lovely bridge to sell you.

  40. Katz says:

    But Jack, the live issue isn’t some more cracker barrel philosophising about Freedom versus Responsibility. Both of us are old enough to put Secondary School debating topics behind us.

    The live issue is whether Howard wanted simply to regulate or whether he wanted to go further and to undo the great social liberal reforms of the 1970s.

    And subsidiary to that question is whether the History Wars were perceived by Howard to be part of this wider culture war.

  41. Jack Strocchi says:

    Comment by Mindy — 26, 2007 @ 1:38 pm

    Jack if you really believe this I have a lovely bridge to sell you.

    Rudd and Mundine signed on to it. Are they suckers too?

    Perhaps its best if we just let children be at the none to tender mercy of predatory tribal Alpha-males and their allies.

    The Cultural Left used to defend obscenity in the 70s. Apparently now they want to licence it.

  42. Paul Burns says:

    Mr. Strocchi,
    You have no idea what historical revisionism is, at least in Australia. Let me tell you, in the first place its utterly apolitical. A few examples – Horner in sone of his earlier books in WW2 question the permutations of the American alliance as they affected our military high command, quite correctly, though you’d hardly call him a radical lefty. Yet he is definitely a revisionist historian.
    I exonerate Menzies for any blame re the Brisbane Line and show that if it existed at all, it was Labor’s creation.Hardly a radical left wing conclusion, though I would definitely consider myself a revisionist historian AND an activist on the far left wing.
    But I’m also proudly empirical in my historiography, as are most good historians. I go where the evidence leads me., even if I don’t like it.

  43. Jack Strocchi says:

    Dear Pr Burns,

    I am not talking about geo-political revisionism. This is a perfectly honorable academic vineyard to toil in.

    I am talking about the New Left’s cultural revisionism which seeks to paint Australian history in the darkest possible terms, for example Humphrey McQueen’s “Social Sketches of Australia”.

    Even orthodox Marxist Old Leftists were happy to sign on to the late Victorian “whig interpretation of history” with regards to Australia. Anything else, no matter how scholarly, just reeks of bad faith.

  44. Gaz says:

    Hey Stoccibot another one of your heroes has just jumped ship,the intellectual skate board rider.

  45. Gaz says:

    He’s going to the re-assessment camp,with you Stroccibot.

  46. Paul Burns says:

    Jack,
    I hate to tell you this but we do have a terribly dark history. We killed off a lot of indigenous people and barely blinked an eyelid. Our founding Europeans were criminals of the darkest hue, especially from the Second Fleet on, generally sexually promiscuous,male and female alike, rife with gonorhea and syphilis, pre-occupied with rebellious politics,very very heavy substance abusers,pretty bad poets, etc. etc. Much like the people responsible for the social cultural revolution of the 60s you so lament.
    I guess these things go in cycles, and despite my age I’m really looking forward to the comimng social/cultural revolution under Labor.

  47. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    “I guess these things go in cycles, and despite my age I’m really looking forward to the comimng social/cultural revolution under Labor.”

    Just when you think he’s serious, he smacks you right in the mouth with a line like that! Well done, sir!

    BBB

  48. Paul Burns says:

    Another thought, Jack. The Whig interpretation of history. Firstly, its 18c, early 19 c historiography.It virtually ends with Macauley as I understand it. Secondly, I don’t know what British and American, let alone Australian history you’ve been reading lately, but its been somewhat questionable since the 1970s regardless of one’s ideology. But I suppose that’s that dreadful 70s social cultural revolution again.

  49. Gaz says:

    After 11 yrs of Howards bastadry,Paul Burns is spot on.So get used to it.

  50. amused says:

    Strocchi-the perfect accompaniement to those fabulous articles in the Reader’s Digest-‘The funniest man I ever met’, and ‘Let’s talk sense about the role of the Father in the Home’.

    Strocchi, social liberalism is an essential accompaniement to economic liberalism, otherwise the market can’t work the magic of the perpetual desire machine, and instead must turn to ugly and authoritarian means to keep all those wheels a turnin’.

    JWH thought he could pretend that all the ugly scenes the olds hate on reality TV and the trash talkin’ kids chewing ekkies at dance parties, could be blamed on teachers, university lecturers, and deracinated intellectuals.

    Instead, people sensibly blamed the government for putting the interests of their business mates before the needs of Australian kiddies for wholesome entertainment.

    No one minds gays getting married, except the Churches and a few obsessives. No blue collar worker I know gives a rats about gay marriage, after all, a lot of them are ‘married’ in that de facto 1970s way, to guys that drive trucks trains, lay bricks and fix engines, now that it is against the law to bash them and rape them after a few drinks at the pub. Thanks, 1970s liberalism.

    As for pedophilia, do you really think people believe that kiddie fiddling is confined to blackfellas and the welfare class? You really are contemptuous of people’s knowledge of contemporary issues and the quite acute sense for their own society and its condition, held by people who actually do the ‘heavy lifting’ of keeping the whole damn show going.

    Which means that I think you are an out of touch elitist, w*nker.

  51. David says:

    Jack, you have become one extended self-parody. A massive shift from Liberal to Labor, and also a shift from Democrats to Greens, is clearly a significant net shift left, socially and economically. Did you not “predict” that the Greens vote would decline? And how come the Greens + Democrat vote hasn’t declined?

    BBB you’re wrong about the political environment favouring a big Greens vote. I was shocked they got anything. A lot of Greens voters were just people on the leftish side of Labor dissatisfied with the party’s crap leadership and not wanting to reward it. But people like winners. The general sense of freshness and dynamicism would have encouraged heaps of former Green voters back. It just feels nice to be part of a band wagon taking over the country.

  52. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    David, if that’s correct then I have even less respect for Green voters. If they are leftish of the ALP, why would they get on board just as the ALP shifts markedly to the right?

    BBB

  53. Bingo Bango Boingo says:

    Are the Greens really just a holding pen for lefty protest votes?

    BBB

  54. […] pm Back on October 18th I pondered about who God is gonna vote for in the election. As Kim notes, Family First didn’t do so well at the […]

  55. The Rockstar Philosopher says:

    “I’m talking about plague-ridden gays, barren career women,”

    Just a tip for future public conversations Jack. You should probably keep those two to yourself, because you just got about 70% of the population to turn off to everything else you have to say. What’s wrong with barren career women? Surely they’re good for the economy. We can always top up our population with skilled migrants, people we don’t even have to pay to raise and train! Awesome! Unless of course you still have this idea that we’re a white country and it should stay that way. As for “plague ridden gays”. That’s just so bloody offensive I almost can’t comment on it, but I will, just to say, that AIDS is more prevalent amongst hetero women than gays.

  56. The Rockstar Philosopher says:

    “In his final keynote address of the campaign, not once did he mention the words unions, Aborigines, indigenous, apology, refugees or multiculturalism.”

    Yet he did mention all of them in his first speech as PM 😀

    And Jack, RE: revisionism, like Paul Burns said, it’s just empirical history. When I discovered how transparent the stolen generation policies were (right there in the protectors royal commission in the late ’30s for example), I was shocked that it took until 1997 for the public to hear about it. Quite simply, this country has buried its head in the sand when it comes to the bad parts of our history. The “black armbanders” aren’t saying that we should be ashamed of our history, they’re saying that in order to be proud of the many, MANY great things we have achieved as a nation, we have to acknowledge that we did some things wrong in the past as well. Do you think the Germans apologising and paying retribution to the Jews is revisionism? No, they did bad shit, they apologised for it, they moved on. We can do the same thing here too!

    As for the drugs thing… Yes, Howard really got that under control… It’s not like “Ice” is a new thing (hell, Winston Churchill was on it!), it’s just that the bikie gangs have been able to run riot and create a whole lot of good product, resulting in stuff of a much higher purity (and hence able to be injected, the real cause of the problem) being on the street. I don’t blame JH for that, more the corruption of ALL the police in this country, but you can’t use drugs as a positive for him.

    I also don’t get your “ethnic ghetto’s” comment. Where are these exactly? Maybe they’re all in Sydney or something, because there’s none down here in Melbourne. There are poor areas, which surprisingly most immigrants move to (bit hard to buy in Toorak when you came here in a bathtub, and then got put in prison for three years before being handed a bill for your incarceration, with a surcharge for any time spent in solitary confinement). Crime is not related to race my friend, it’s a socio-economic thing. Poor people are much more likely to steal your tv than rich people, who are more likely to steal your house, life savings and superannuation. Should we start deporting entrepreneurs to punish them for the likes of Bond, Skase and Adler? Face it, a large percentage of people in this country cannot trace their roots back to England (we have an asian population here of around 25% and the largest Greek community outside of Greece, not to mention the arabs, eastern euro’s and africans).

    The culture wars indeed are over, and, I hate to be the one to inform you of this (I don’t actually, it fills me with joy, I’m just waxing rhetorical), but your team lost. Get ready for the full force of “revisionist” History; i.e. empirical History that actually analyses and reinterprets the evidence with the benefit of hindsight (you can do that in History!). Inga Cleninden et. al., those responsible for the “black arm band” view of history are members of what is known as the “Melbourne School” of History, and their work is world renown and widely supported as being the right way to do History.

    Now it’s time for a chardonnay and a latte.

  57. Paul Burns says:

    Rockstar Philosopher,
    Inga Clendinning’s work on Aborigines and the First Fleet, id good, but I sduspect a bit romanticised in it interpretation.

  58. Jack Strocchi says:

    Comment by David — November 26, 2007 @ 6:25 pm

    Jack, you have become one extended self-parody. A massive shift from Liberal to Labor, and also a shift from Democrats to Greens, is clearly a significant net shift left, socially and economically. Did you not “predict” that the Greens vote would decline? And how come the Greens + Democrat vote hasn’t declined?

    David your comment tells me nothing except your ignorance of my views and the world. THe shift from LN/P to ALP was mostly a predictable cyclical event. I predicted it. All govts rise and fall, as the benefits of incumbency fall and the benefits of the “out-cumbent” rise. Its called the “periodicity of the electoral pendulum”.

    There seems to have been a structural demographic shift amplifying the cyclical swing. Namely the Baby Boomers allergy to voting LN/P. But this is an ideologically vacuous psephological tendency, as proved by the Boomers embracing New Right financial policies and Old Right cultural policies put forward by both parties in the past generation.

    There has been a popular shift to the Economic Left as the ALP campaigned vigorously on the regressive nature of Work Choices. I have been calling this since the early nineties. There is simply no life left in New Right neo-liberalism.

    Nor is there much life left in New Left post-modern liberalism. This election has shown no discernible shift to the Cultural Left. Rudd is the most culturally conservative ALP leader in a generation.

    The Culture War has been in stasis since Howard has pretty much won the key issues – working welfare, border protection, law & order, war on drugs, monarchy saved, indigenous intervention, career women baby boom, gay marriage stalled, multiculturalism ditched. Minority groups have more or less lost their political verve.

    There has bee no “clearly significant shift” to the Cultural Left. The GREENs + DEM vote moved sideways concurrent to a massive shift in public opinion in favour of ecological conservatism. No glimmer of hope there for social liberals or cultural constructivists.

    You are kidding yourself if you think that the Cultural Left is in for a big popular surge. Most people want the cultural system to work, at familial, parochial and national levels – “working families”, values in schools and a unified nation.

    The CUltural Right is winning the intellectual front of the Culture War, proven by the hysterical reaction to Watson’s comments. It is also winning on the political front, proven by the ascendance of Rudd in the ALP.

    The Cultural Left will have to satisfy itself with token acts of ideological symbolism. About what you’d expect from a bunch of not-very useful Arts graduates.

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