Is Missy Hillary a lipsniger?

Huma Abedin poses for Vogue magazineI’m surprised that detailed lesbian slurs against Clinton have taken this long to arise, actually, given that her sexual preferences have been questioned since long before Gennifer Flowers’ memoirs put the allegations into print. The fact that the alleged lust partner is both stunningly beautiful and a Muslima add to the salaciousness of the scandal, certainly. (edited to add image)

The wingnuts have, predictably, gone wild with innuendo, smutty jokes, and paranoid speculation that Ms Abedin is a secret agent for the Saudi intelligence services.

I doubt that this rumour will change many minds: it will merely focus the distaste of those who already dislike Clinton onto her sexuality in an attempt to make it seem even more dangerous than her husband’s. People already inclined to vote for her aren’t likely to believe it. The wingnuts are merely, once again, shining the light under the rock of their obsession with other people’s sex lives.

(* for those confused by the post title, it references what has proven to be the most-commented LP post ever, Is Missy Higgins a Lesbian?, currently standing at 469 comments, wherein the misspelling lipsniger somehow arose and was immortalised).

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writer, singer, webwrangler, blogger, comedy tragic | about.me/vivsmythe

Posted in media, politics, sexuality, sociology
87 comments on “Is Missy Hillary a lipsniger?
  1. Mindy says:

    Makes what went on in Wentworth look like child’s play. Makes what went on in Lindsay look like the ill-considered stupidity that it was.

  2. Zarquon says:

    I saw Missy Higgins last night. No mention of lipsnigering.

  3. j_p_z says:

    “The wingnuts have, predictably, gone wild with innuendo…”

    Then, only a few sentences later in the post, “what has proven to be the most-commented LP post ever, Is Missy Higgins a Lesbian?…”

    Hee hee.

    Ah, those wingnuts, with their eternal monopoly on innuendo.

    p.s. — I’ve actually never heard of this person (Abedin) before, but I don’t see why speculation about her unusual background and provenance need be “paranoid.” After all, Mrs. Clinton *does* want to be the President of the US, yes? Is it so dreadfully unthinkable that many foreign agencies would like to plant their own instruments as close to a President as possible?

    p.p.s. — what, btw, is a “Muslima”? Is that like being a “Catholica,” or a “Buddhistress,” or a “Protestantrix”?

  4. Charming.

    You’d reckon, given the rather unsavoury marital history of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee (and several of the other Republican candidates), that they’d be wise to leave well enough alone.

  5. Liam Hogan says:

    “Protestantrix”

    A wise druid of a religion practiced only by the inhabitants of a small village in Gaul, as yet unconquered by the Roman Empire…

  6. tigtog says:

    j_p_z,

    Ah, those wingnuts, with their eternal monopoly on innuendo.

    Perhaps if you had clicked on the link to see what the post actually said, and what the comments from LP regulars actually were (mostly pun cascades and deliberately woeful poetry), you might make a valid point instead of an insipidly predictable gotcha attempt?

    As for the paranoid speculation: Ms Abedin has been working for Hillary Clinton since she was the First Lady. You don’t think extensive security checks were done on her, as on all potential White House employees, in 1996? Or that nobody has kept an eye on her, as they monitor all staff with passes to the Hill, since? Such speculation not only implies that the Clintons were and are incompetent in scrutinising their own staff appointments, but that the whole Secret Service under Bush and since 9/11 has been equally incompetent. While that’s a tempting inference to draw in some ways, are you sure that’s really the way you want to leap?

  7. Craig Mc says:

    Maybe Gary Hart will run again in this new climate of understanding and tolerance!

  8. Liam Hogan says:

    Come off it, TT. That whole thread was glorious innuendo from beginning to its [ahem] premature finish.
    And I resent the accusation of deliberately bad poetry—bad maybe, deliberate never.

  9. David Rubie says:

    What’s with all those blog references. I had to click through about 50 blogs just to get a picture of the lipsniger. Have mercy on us!

    On a more positive note, Hillary is now in no danger of getting caught with a stained blue dress.

  10. Craig Mc says:

    Women do it too David.

  11. David Rubie says:

    They do what, Craig?

  12. Liam Hogan says:

    Pun on “stained blue dress”, David. You know… Uh-huh huh, You can do anything, but just don’t pun on my “stained blue dress”.
    [slides guitar around, gyrates]

  13. David Rubie says:

    Leave the building, Liam 😀

  14. Birdie says:

    prurient nonsense.

    Next.

  15. anthony says:

    Even educated fleas do it.

  16. tigtog says:

    Of course the rumour is prurient nonsense, Birdie.

    Sexual practises have no impact on a person’s political abilities that I can see, although hyprocrisy about sexual practises as displayed in judgements made about others may well raise questions of character. Both Clintons, from memory, have been unjudgemental about the alleged sexual practises of other people, so a charge of hypocrisy can’t really stick.

    This is, as I said in the post, far more revealing of the anti-Clinton conservatives’ prurient mindset than anything else.

  17. Craig Mc says:

    “Both Clintons, from memory, have been unjudgemental about the alleged sexual practises of other people, so a charge of hypocrisy can’t really stick.”

    Bill might have another opinion.

  18. Liam Hogan says:

    prurient nonsense.
    Next.

    My thoughts exactly, birdie and TT. Please, may I have some more?

    In a manner more raving than mild,
    We all love to read the self-styled
    spittle-flecked guff
    about all the stuff
    Imagined by Wingnuts Gone Wild.

  19. wasjotoo says:

    I’m just hoping that if Hils gets the top job she will rename the oval office the ovum office. And as long as she is making love not war i will be very happy.

  20. FDB says:

    Depends on their vows, Craig. 😉

  21. tigtog says:

    The Clintons have always refused to comment on what agreements, if any, they have in place about extramarital affairs, Craig. They’d hardly be the first ever couple to have a marriage based on emotional and intellectual compatibility without a primary concern for sexual fidelity: in many social sets the expectation of marital fidelity is viewed as displaying romantic naivety and emotional immaturity (e.g. Diana, Princess of Wales), and as long as everybody is honest to their partner about such expectations there’s no harm and no foul.

  22. Anthony says:

    “Both Clintons, from memory, have been unjudgemental about the alleged sexual practises of other people, so a charge of hypocrisy can’t really stick”

    My memory of the Clinton administration is that he was very much concerned with the sexual practices of consenting persons: telling gays in the military that they couldn’t display their sexuality in the same way heterosexuals could; threatening women with losing welfare if they had more babies; even telling a school class, I recall, that abstinence was the best policy. Given he made blatant political capital out of telling people how to conduct their sex lives, I never had much sympathy for him when his political opponents started delving into the way he had run his own sex life. There were plenty of valid charges against Clinton, but hypocrisy could easily find its place amongst them.

  23. Katz says:

    The Wingnuts’ salacious and paranoid fantasising all seems to revolve around the proposition that Hillary Clinton is being corrupted by a Saudi Honeypot Sting.

    Wouldn’t these very same Wingnuts get their rocks off much more gratifyingly were they to fantasise that Hillary Clinton is an American Honeypot trapping a Saudi in a sting?

    Jus’ sayin’, because a gratified Wingnut is a docile Wingnut.

  24. Birdie says:

    “in many social sets the expectation of marital fidelity is viewed as displaying romantic naivety and emotional immaturity (e.g. Diana, Princess of Wales), and as long as everybody is honest to their partner about such expectations there’s no harm and no foul.”

    Umm, what social sets would they be, tigtog?

  25. tigtog says:

    Anthony, certainly Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (DADT) was an extremely weak response to the reality of homosexuals in the military, and it doesn’t reflect well on Clinton that he agreed to it. I don’t remember your other two examples at all, so have no opinion to offer there. Obviously I should have been excruciatingly exact and stuck only to the claim, by which I stand, that neither Clinton to my recollection has ever uttered a judgemental statement about another person’s alleged extramarital sexual relations, so there is no hypocrisy about marital fidelity to point to.

  26. j_p_z says:

    Uh oh, so now it’s limericks, is it. OK, tell the receptionist to hold all my calls.

    Is the L-Word Miss Hil’s brand-new hobby?
    Hey, no point being sexually snobby.
    But to me, the cliff-hanger:
    Is Hil’s mash-with-a-bang-‘er
    Just a paw for a Wahabbi lobby?

    tigtog: Insipid? Moi? I’m afraid it’s custard pies at dawn, then.

    The ostensible lesbian angle here interests me not at all. As to your other point about security checks, at least it has the merit of being shaped like an argument, though it lacks any plausible argument-like innards. Surely you don’t think that all foreign operatives are actual spies wearing cloaks and carrying daggers? It’s perfectly possible to serve a foreign agenda without a microcamera hidden in your designer bag, but simply by always having one’s wish list serviceably offered and “ready to hand” as it were. Recall Gary Snyder’s re-visiting of the old Chinese saying about making axe-handles.

    I have no idea what any of the truth may be in this specific case, and of course it could easily be a non-issue, but I also don’t think it’s necessarily a symptom of mania to ask certain questions about certain unusual matters. And since you were speaking of predictability, I find that your blithe and scolding dismissal of any healthy curiosity about the whole thing fits that bill rather nicely.

  27. tigtog says:

    Birdie,

    Umm, what social sets would they be, tigtog?

    For starters, as my example might have indicated, the British royalty, aristocracy and landed gentry for many generations now (and most of the rest of Europe as well). Once the succession of the estates were ensured, both partners have traditionally been free to dally discreetly outside the conjugal bed. Diana Spencer’s major PR triumph was to present herself as the lone woman of her class and education who apparently didn’t understand this as a given in a royal marriage.

    There have also been many “bohemians” who have believed in open marriages in less elevated social classes. I’ve met more than a few hangovers from the free-love era, and certainly several more postmodern couples with open arrangements regarding sexual fidelity as well. It’s a perfectly valid alternative marriage arrangement for those who believe marriage is primarily about compatibility of character rather than sexual monopoly.

    Does this really come as such a surprise to you?

  28. Sam Ward says:

    This post needs photos of Hillary’s hot muslim girlfriend IMO.

  29. tigtog says:

    j_p_z:

    I’m afraid it’s custard pies at dawn, then.

    Vanilla or chocolate custard? 🙂

    Look, it’s more the lesbian angle that I am dismissing out of hand, as irrelevant and no-one else’s business but Hillary and Bill’s. We seem to be in agreement there.

    As to your points that some concern about security implications may be valid, I do see your point (up to a point). However, the security concerns about Ms Abedin seem rather overblown, considering that the first thing she and her sister apparently did after their father died was return to the country of their birth (USA) rather than continue to live under the Wahabist regime without a resident male protector. Their mother still lives and teaches there, but she teaches women whom the Wahabis would rather were never educated. This is at least arguably a sign of a family dedicated to an Islam adamantly opposed to the Wahabist interpretation instead of in sympathy with it (like much of the rest of the Saudi intelligentsia are opposed to Wahabism).

    Finally, even if Abedin were a Saudi intelligence agent, surely such an agent would be acting for the princes who use the Wahabists cynically as tools for social control? Is there any indication that Saudi intelligence is a Wahabist tool rather than yet another weapon in the tyranny of the House of Saud?

    The House of Saud, as distinct from certain insurrectionists within their country, were still considered valued allies of the USA last time I checked. I find this distasteful, not because the princes of Saud are Wahabist extremists (the two groups despise each other as they use each other), but because they are exploitative tyrants. The USA has ignored this for nearly a century though.

  30. Birdie says:

    so you are suggesting that “social sets” as you describe them, whether in the British aristocracy or royal family or for what you call bohemian or post-modern couples the experiences, standards and outcomes for men and women are identical?

  31. Birdie says:

    “The wingnuts are merely, once again, shining the light under the rock of their obsession with other people’s sex lives.”

    I don’t think wingnuts, as I understand the term, are at all interested in other people’s sex lives per se, though certainly they may use them, if unconventional, as a means to smear political opponents. But that is quite a different matter and warrants quite a different response.

  32. tigtog says:

    so you are suggesting that “social sets” as you describe them, whether in the British aristocracy or royal family or for what you call bohemian or post-modern couples the experiences, standards and outcomes for men and women are identical?

    Not at all, and especially not in the upper class sets, which are a very patriarchal set up – the man may philander from the start, the woman is expected to stay faithful until the “heir and a spare” have been sorted, and only dally after that and with the understanding that no bastard children will embarrass the dynasty. That such arrangements are largely dealt with pragmatically and honestly in such circles is no guarantee that they are thus egalitarian.

    The bohemian/postmodern open marriages with which I am acquainted, and it is a small sample, are largely very consciously egalitarian as far as the extramarital affairs are concerned. The few that have children have wanted to ensure that parentage was known, so while attempting to conceive both partners practised sexual fidelity, and both partners eventually went back to extramarital affairs after the birth of the children.

    I do know two lopsided open partnerships – where both partners are theoretically free to engage in extramarital affairs but in practise only one does so. In one partnership the man is the one engaging in extramarital affairs, and in the other it is the woman.

    Same sex couples can also have open relationships, of course.

    I don’t think wingnuts, as I understand the term, are at all interested in other people’s sex lives per se,

    Libertarian wingnuts couldn’t give a stuff, I agree. A whole heap of wingnuts are social conservatives though, and they seem to care very much indeed.

  33. South Carolina shares something with its sister state Queensland: major problems with water. I knew that Atlanta in Georgia (the next-state over) had it bad; there’s even an Atlanta Water Shortage blog. But this map of the streamflow in Carolina way surprised me. They’re way, way down.

    So colour me depressed when I read stuff like this:

    Welcome to South Carolina, the foulest swamp of electoral dirty tricks in America. This state’s primary race has already become the sleaziest leg of the 2008 presidential campaign. Here, political operatives know only one way to win: take your opponent’s head off…

    “South Carolina is a do-or-die state again,” said Rod Shealy, a veteran Republican consultant, over a meal of fried pork and beans in his favourite diner, the Lizard’s Thicket. “The attacks are already coming on a daily basis. And with the anonymity of the internet, we’re going to see new lows in dirty politics that would have been unimaginable recently…”

    And Republicans fiddle while the South burns.

  34. wasjotoo says:

    “This post needs photos of Hillary’s hot muslim girlfriend IMO”

    Sam, the election result may have effected your eyesight.
    Look top right.

  35. derrida derider says:

    If that young lady in fact plays for the other team, may I say on behalf of all hetero males:

    What a waste .

  36. wbb says:

    Hillary Clinton is near a warmonger. (And that’s not a Republican misinformation.)

  37. haiku says:

    and the sooner that the old LP post is up and running the better – we can strive for 500!

    I’m sure Liam has a limerick or two just ready and raring to go …

  38. Nabakov says:

    Oh c’mon, it’s not like Hillary’s been caught holding hands in public with a Moslem powerbroker who’s countrymen staged the worst terrorist attack ever on American soil.

  39. Nabakov says:

    “Wouldn’t these very same Wingnuts get their rocks off much more gratifyingly were they to fantasise that Hillary Clinton is an American Honeypot trapping a Saudi in a sting?”

    ‘zactly. At this level of geopolitics no one can ever be sure who’s playing whom. Including the players themselves.

  40. vaara says:

    How this squares with another wingnut article of faith — that Hillary had an affair with Vince Foster (who was a man) then had him bumped off — is not entirely clear.

  41. Katz says:

    WAHHABI ORDERS FOR HONEY POT

    Seduce Hill in order to wreck her.
    Pet her. Stroke her. Neck her.
    But no good Muslim is gay.
    If you must go all the way,
    Then lie back and think of Mecca.

  42. David Rubie says:

    ‘Sniger,’sniger, burning bright
    Somewhere betwixt left and right,
    Where is thy right hand unseen?
    Is it, perchance, flicking bean?

  43. Liam Hogan says:

    Nice work, Katz. And yes, haiku, after mentions of lesbian secret agents, Muslims, the Clinton dynasty, bourgeois triangular marriages and three-ways, and noting the presence of the venerable Yobbo, I’ll be damned to a special blogger’s Hell* if the tone of this thread can’t get a whole lot lower.
    *Blogger’s Hell: haloscan

    It was the former Prez Clinton’s way
    To take time out each morning to pray.
    But will future observance
    By Hil’s public servants
    Involve going down five times a day?

  44. FDB says:

    As soon as the fine lass was eyeballed,
    The tone of the thread became ribald,
    The question that sticks
    Is now “is it just licks,
    Or have they been getting all tribald?”

  45. wasjotoo says:

    “Tribald” ,for anybody who does not know, is lesbian love with the brazilians.

  46. Jack Robertson says:

    Again, the point’s missed (missed inordinate!),
    Here in Part II of Clinton SexBawdygate,
    The ishoo in play,
    Is not sex (straight or gay),
    But: should a boss hump a subordinate?

  47. Sam Ward says:

    When I say photos I mean bikinis at a bare minimum. But here’s a higher-res version of the one in the post.

    Personally I’m a little suspicious of the profile-face shot. That usually means that they’re hiding something like cross-eyes or a horribly large mole.

  48. FDB says:

    Inordinate and subordinate?

    C’mon Jack, you can do better than that.

  49. Katz says:

    When a thread’s subject turns sapphic
    There’s a mensurable upwelling of traffic
    In hopes of a mention of mufti,
    Whether silky smoothe or tufty,
    And pudenda even more graphic.

  50. FDB says:

    Office of oval
    salty dew on fevered lips
    plus: cherry blossom

  51. Liam Hogan says:

    Once again, the American nation
    Risks a Clinton administration.
    Right wing blogs must be sentries
    Against any more entries
    By agents of deep penetration…

  52. wasjotoo says:

    Hil’s is great
    I tell you mate

    and what she ate
    should be no gate

    For higher gov’mint orifices

  53. FDB says:

    The straight versus gay dialectic,
    In a campaign milieux that’s so hectic,
    Sends those à la droite,
    Into a brain fart;
    One verging on the apoplectic

  54. flygirl says:

    the minds of wingnuts. don’t want to go there.

    and er, guys, she’s half indian, half pakistani, not Saudi.

  55. FDB says:

    Grew up in Saudi though.

  56. j_p_z says:

    “er, guys, she’s half indian, half pakistani”

    OK, Kashmiri, then.

  57. Sam Ward says:

    An Indian Dyke
    Is there any surer sign
    Of a Hirsute Arse.

  58. FDB says:

    Lipsnigering threads are not common
    And much humour can be got from ‘un
    Where then is the love?
    When push came to shove
    Y’all scarpered and left this one bombin’

  59. びっくり says:

    You referred to this as a “slur”. If it is true, then it is not a slur. If she doesn’t feel bad about it, then it is not a slur. Whether it is a slur or not is, as yet, unknown. Hopefully, it will remain unknown. (Unless she does have a foreign spy as a lover, which would clearly be a security concern.)

    Personally, I couldn’t care less about her relationship issues. The fact that she makes Nixon look honest is enough to keep me from supporting her. Her desire to throw out promises to do things she has proven unable to do, also knocks her credibility through the floor.

  60. FDB says:

    Sixty-odd comments is far from enough
    When the topic pertains to the diving of muff
    The time is now nigh
    I’ll be coming up dry
    Intervention’s not just for Mal Brough

  61. anthony says:

    “Her desire to throw out promises to do things she has proven unable to do”

    and there I was just getting over the recursive anagrams

  62. anthony says:

    [further thread crossover!]

    oh here’s she comes
    look out girls she’ll chew you out
    oh here she comes
    she’s a qu’ran reader

  63. FDB says:

    That’s what I’m talking about!

    Renewal!

    Fresh leadership!

    Regime change!

    I’m off to the pub.

  64. wasjotoo says:

    “I’m off to the pub.”

    Be careful, FDB, of Mine Host.
    Any suggestion as to the end of exploitative wages, in the hospitality industry, and you will see many publicans in a very bad frame of mind.

  65. philiptravers says:

    It is a safe bet to suggest, that this woman has no connections with lowly Australia,and I suppose it would be entirely chauvinist to say, some people in Australia wearing regular Muslim gear in public seem to be more intelligently described as good looking..without offence attempted or implied in a culturally religious intent!!?I think, that woman could be a Saudi spy,and Australians have to still ask is that a good or bad thing..because it could turn out to be far worse for the average citizen of Islamic countries besides Saudi Arabia..or even within that country..not necessarily known for public expressions often, of the poorer sections of Islamic countries of various persausions!? To trivialise her, however doesnt seem like using common sense..because obviously she is quite capable in a Western…. American sense!

  66. silkworm says:

    Are you bothered by right-wingnuts and other assorted nutjobs? You need a Hillary Nutcracker for Xmas –

    http://hillarynutcracker.com/

  67. びっくり says:

    This whole “lipsniger” thing is pretty silly. Clearly the commenter meant to enter “lipsnycher”. I mean, “lipsniger” isn’t even a word. 😛

  68. Paul Burns says:

    Are not some of the comments on this thread close ro deserving 40 lashes or a death sentence?

  69. Zarquon says:

    This whole “lipsniger” thing is pretty silly.

    Oh. Damn.

  70. boredinHK says:

    bikkuri?
    Gomenasi kerredomo kore wa nan desu ka?

  71. turning j_p_z (I really think so) says:

    “Gomenasi kerredomo kore wa nan desu ka?”

    ‘Kerredomo’ wa, “John Kerry’s house” desu nee. 😎

    Oh wait, no, is that the latin? Soooo confused…

  72. びっくり says:

    ぜんぜん見えないから、それは何か分からん。見せて下さい。

  73. びっくり says:

    Hey turning, I think “Kerry’s House” in Latin is “Heinz’ Domo”.;)

  74. j_p_z says:

    “I think “Kerry’s House” in Latin is “Heinz’ Domo”.;)”

    Soo desu nee.

    Oh, what the heck, this thread can’t get any sillier…

    She’s got a ticket to Riyadh,
    She’s got a ticket to Ri-ya-ah-adh,
    She’s got a ticket to Riyadh,
    But she don’t care.

    or maybe…

    Here I stand,
    Kate Spade in hand,
    Turn my face to the wall.
    If she’s Prez
    I can’t be a lez
    At her Inaugural Ba-aw-all.
    Through the fog,
    Wingnuts blog,
    Each and every day.
    I can read
    The RSS feed,
    And I see them say:
    Hey! You’ve got to spy for
    KSA.
    Hey! You’ve got to spy for
    KSA.

    All right, that’s quite enough of that. Sorry. Now I’ll go listen to some nice Mahler instead. Hey, I wonder what time it is?

  75. j_p_z says:

    Uh-oh, kanji and stuff, my withered ole brain don’t stand a chance. Nihon-go wa, zenbu ga wasuremasi’ta yo!

    On the other hand…
    “I think “Kerry’s House” in Latin is “Heinz’ Domo”.”
    …Hai, soo desu nee. That much I can still manage. Or maybe we could call it “Ketchup Kastle”. The San Simeon of Sauce? Eh, forget it.

    Anyway, on to even sillier things, more a propos to this increasingly silly thread…
    (I tried this earlier and it didn’t go through, but I’m damned if something this stupid should be wasted…)

    She’s got a ticket to Riyadh,
    She’s got a ticket to Riya-ah-adh,
    She’s got a ticket to Riyadh,
    But she don’t care.

    or…

    Here I stand,
    Prada in hand,
    Turn my face to the wall.
    If she’s Prez
    I can’t be a lez
    At her Inaugural Ba-aw-all.

    Through the fog,
    Wingnuts blog,
    Each and every day.
    I can read
    The RSS feed,
    And I see them say-ay-ay…
    Hey! You’ve got to spy for
    The KSA.
    Hey! You’ve got to spy for
    The KSA.

    All right, enough of that. Nurse! Where’s my fookin’ pills already?!?

  76. Youie says:

    An Indian Dyke
    Is there any surer sign
    Of a Hirsute Arse.

    And nipples.

  77. anthony says:

    あやしい女
    何を見ていろ
    クリントン来る

  78. anthony says:

    oh and sorry I missed you on election night youie, trust you had a good one!

  79. びっくり says:

    Anthony – Was that supposed to be Haiku? The conventional pattern is 5-7-5 chronemes; yours appears to be 7-7-7. In Japanese the ‘n’ is a chroneme; hence 女 in this sentence is 3 and クリントン is 5. As they say in Japan: time to wash your neck and try again.

    日本語は
    難しいだが
    出来るそう

    🙂

  80. Chav says:

    Lesbian or not, she wants to bomb Iran back to the stone-age. That’s why I don’t like her. And I suspect neither will Iranian women if she carries out her plans.

  81. Paul Burns says:

    Chav,
    Barrack is ahead. Things do not look good for Hilary, though I briefly glanced at an e-mail from the Obama campaign suggesting she was getting up to some very dirty tricks to cut him out. Can’t be specific, as I didn’t read it closely and have deleted it.
    So far as I can work out he does not want to bomb Iran, and nor should anyone else in light of the current US intelligence reportsd. But whoever said the American ruling elite were sane?

  82. Chav says:

    “So far as I can work out he does not want to bomb Iran, and nor should anyone else in light of the current US intelligence reportsd. But whoever said the American ruling elite were sane?”

    Well, Clinton voted for labelling the elite of Iran’s military a ‘terrorist organisation’, which could be seen as a green light to attack the country. As for your comment on the American ruling class, well, yeah…you said it! Although I might add its more the case that the system is irrational…

  83. Paul Burns says:

    Chav,
    I know Clinton could be a very dangerous woman. I’m very suspicious nowadays of any pollie in love with power as Clinton is,[‘such men {and women}are dangerous’.] and nothing else.Its something we’ve learnt well from Howard.

  84. FDB says:

    Guys, stop sullying this thread with serious commentry.

    Say it in verse or not at all. 😉

  85. FDB says:

    CommentAry, even.

    Let’s call it poetic license.

  86. びっくり says:

    Iraq started from bad info
    some even say, “a lie”
    with such haste to Iran to go
    avoid that we must try

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